1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

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Gavin
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1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby Gavin » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:49 pm

Car drives sweet as a nut for around the first 6 to 8 miles from a cold start, after that the revs suddenly decrease without warning and the car will stall with no throttle/if the clutch is depressed. Car will then not idle at all without throttle being applied and if driven further will begin to lose power and splutter/backfire before coming to a stop. Unwinding the 3/4 screw on the side of the carb (increasing the revs) keeps the car ticking over and makes it drivable but very lumpy. Car will idle/drive fine again from being completely cold until the problem reoccurs.

Flange under the carb has been replaced, waxstat works, carb heater has power and is earthed, has an inline fuel filter fitted, manifold shield and pipe to air-box via manifold is there, vacuum controlled valve is working, all vacuum hoses have been replaced, air filter has been replaced and jets have been blown out recently. This problem can occur on dry and warm days and happens on every drive, so I've ruled out carb-icing atm.

Garage we're using who specialises in older vw's doesn't have a clue either, but persists that the carb is in full working order.

Thinking its something electrical or a fuel supply issue of some-sort, any ideas? As I don't reckon a Weber will sort this issue
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eddypeck
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Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby eddypeck » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:58 pm

I'm afraid I'm not so hot on carbed cars, but have you been through the rest of the obvious service items; plugs, leads, caps, etc. I know it wouldn't make sense though as you'd think that would result in always bad not just when warm. Still good to know the situation.

Another option.... air lock or blockage in the cooling system?

An 8 mile drive sounds about the right distance to bring the engine up to temp and open the thermostat. At which point the rad will start to fill with hot water and the system circulate.

1. does temp gauge operate properly and sit at 90 deg once warmed up?
2. condition and age of heater matrix?
3. is matrix bypass valve still fitted? - could be blocked
4. does heater work as expected?
5. is water returning to expansion bottle via thin hose as expected?
6. what colour is your expansion bottle cap?

An air lock can cause water to boil in the wrong place, the trapped boiling water can give the impression of lumpy running till it boils over and dumps it's load, if your cap has not been replaced you could have incorrect pressure build up.

Not a lot of logic to what I'm saying I know, but trying to think outside the norm and beyond the expected, especially if your VW specialists are stumped.
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Gavin
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Drives: 1991 MK2 Golf 1.6 Driver

Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby Gavin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:17 pm

Car had a full service around 9 month ago and has done very little miles since

Started the car today and after 5 minutes of idling she decreased in revs and cut out, in that time coolant was returning to the expansion bottle in bursts.
The temp gauge does read low, but whether the sensor/electrics are responsible for that I have no idea.
The heaters work well, but have no clue on the age of the heater core, nor if there is a bypass valve fitted (how would I check?)
The cap is black and the bottle is original

Cheers for the reply
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big F
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Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby big F » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:09 pm

8 miles is about exactly how much I got from mine before exactly the same experience as you. Spent ages trying everything.

Change the fuel vapor separator the metal jam jar thing in front of the carb bolted to the rocker cover, all the fuel lines go to it.

Whats happening is its blocked up with years of fuel emulsion and all the junk they put in fuel. Think wire wool with loads of crap stuck to it, the same as happens to kettles in hard water areas. It causes a fuel starvation/airlock in the carb, then the car stalls. The presure goes away after 20 mind or so and you can drive again for 8 miles.... Rinse repeat. Eventually it will be 2 miles stop.... Wait 2 miles. At that point walking is faster.
A friend bought a Mk2 a few years back that the owner was going to scrap, because of this he had no idea why the car wouldnt go £40 sold as seen.
A tenner or so later and a quick clean and polish, £600, the guy drove 100 miles to get it.

You cant fix them and luckly they are available from VAG and Euro car parts etc. They are not expensive.
https://www.vwheritage.com/026127177-fu ... l-vw-spare

Since then I change them on every carb VW I work on unless its already done.

Back in the day The AA and RAC had them as stock items in their vans, it was a common break down thing.
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Big F

Gavin
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Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:54 pm
Drives: 1991 MK2 Golf 1.6 Driver

Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby Gavin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:11 pm

Cheers for that mate, sounds exactly like the issue i'm having, however the bloke we bought it from who also had said issue replaced this (around 5/6 months ago from now) and it looks fairly knew on the car, but didn't solve the issue. Reckon it could get clogged up in a short amount of time with dirty fuel being passed through? as it was sat for a while before we had it. Will replace anyway.
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big F
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Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby big F » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:45 pm

Ok with that then not likely to be the problem. Only other thing to look at is the plugs leads cap and rotor. Easy swap outs. After that the ignition pack thats up in the skuttle in front of the drivers seat next to the wiper motor. They can go and work great till they get hot and fail... Cool dawn work great again.

I did have issues witn my original Dizzy, the bearing went and made the rotor flop about like cock in a sock throwing the timing out, its the Drucillier one commonly fitted to carbed mk2's The non digifant GTI Bosch one is a direct swap I swapped it out for one from a k jet GTI, just needed its plug as the druclier one is different, wires are the same colour though.
Back in the day VW wanted £700 fitted for a new one.

The GTI one has a better power curve also. The only issue is finding one these days.
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Big F

Gavin
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Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:54 pm
Drives: 1991 MK2 Golf 1.6 Driver

Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby Gavin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Right, will check when I get the chance.

So perhaps the reason its backfiring/lumpy and has a loss in power until the car comes to a resting stop is because fuel isn't being burnt off properly? Pointing to a spark or distributor issue? As said in OP, increasing the revs by adjusting the carb somewhat fixes the issue, which would make sense given that this could compensate such a problem. I'm no mechanic just throwing ideas out there haha.

Although, why would that problem only arise after the car is warm/being driven and not be present when you turn the key? She starts fine every time - until the car has cut out once or twice and then needs gas to idle until the car is cold again.

When she cuts out the dash lights remain on, which from my understanding means that the ignition side of things is alright.
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big F
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Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby big F » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:32 am

Electronics expand when warm and get warm under use. If there are micro cracks in the circuit board theses be come bigger and more resistant to current flow. Things like the leads become more resistant when warm.
Think of the Xbox red ring of death caused by shooter lead free solder and hot cold cycles that eventually lead to failure.

The thing is you have to try everything thing, the fact that it runs right for now means it’s far from a basket case.
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eddypeck
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Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby eddypeck » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:08 pm

It seems not relevant to your issue now but:

Gavin wrote:The heaters work well, but have no clue on the age of the heater core, nor if there is a bypass valve fitted (how would I check?)


Look at the two hoses that go into the bulkhead and feed the matrix, if it's just two normal looking hoses it's not there. If there's a metal cyclinder and a smaller rubber hose bridging the two larger hoses it's still in place.
Image

Now read this: viewtopic.php?f=138&t=48862


Gavin wrote:The cap is black and the bottle is original


Replace it with a new blue one, the black caps were replaced as a recall item as the pressure release valve within the cap was found to not release pressure when required, the new ones were coloured blue so it was an easy visual check to see if it had been changed.
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Gavin
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Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:54 pm
Drives: 1991 MK2 Golf 1.6 Driver

Re: 1.6 Pierburg 2e2 carb problems

Postby Gavin » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:01 pm

Yes mate that is still there. Unfortunately i'm now having the same problem as before the carb was properly adjusted by the garage, where the revs would be high for 2 seconds after turning the key from cold, drop to how the idle should be, and then after 5 minutes the revs will begin to lower until the car stalls while misfiring (all whilst being idle). The car will not idle at all after this happens unless given throttle.

Will check/replace the plugs/leads/caps, but seems strange as the car had a full service only 9 months ago (including a timing belt change!) so can't be much wrong with her :/

Edit: Dizzy cap/rotor/spark plugs are clean as a whistle, so don't really fancy spending money where I don't need to. Got the car booked in for a look at the fuel setup/lines/pressure etc, as well as the the hall sensor. However, fuel is entering the carb when she stalls.

The stalling at idle feels as though the waxstat is moving the throttle plate too much - winding back the revs until she stalls, meaning she wont idle after cutting out being as the waxstat is extended fully. Still wouldn't explain the issue with cutting out after a journey of around 8 miles, as she still drives fine up until that point.

Read a few things about the brake servo hose being a bit culprit with regards to leaking vacuum letting in air to the inlet manifold, coincidentally the brakes are non-existent and the pedal is heavy - though this seems normal for older Golfs.
Last edited by Gavin on Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:23 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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