I'd really like to fit aircon to my MK2. It's a 1991 8v GTI Moredoor big bumper which I've had for nearly 23 years and will no doubt be with me for a little longer......
I had a Beetle TDI for a few years but the Golf sat patiently waiting my renewed attention a few years ago.
So back in Jan 2020 I did some surfing on ebay and found someone selling most of the MK3 Golf aircon setup for £40 near Colchester. For a bit more he'll sell me a MK3 alternator adjuster and the engine wiring. So I took a punt based on the fact we have some friends who live nearby and could drop off on his periodic trips North...I wasn't in a rush... However COVID-19 came along and it's still down there!
My idea is to do a staged install. I'll put the modded heater box in and plumb the engine components as and when.
The other weekend I replaced the foam on a spare MK2 heater box and I managed to jump on a RHD aircon parcel shelf on ebay for £35 delivered.
I've surfed the Internet for any install guides and can only see brief reference to the install on an Australian website, but there isn't much to go on.
Any help would be appreciated.
I guess a Haynes MK3 Repair manual might help! ...... edit - Nah the MK3 Manual is cr4p for any detail re aircon
I've got a Mk3 golf but no air con but I could look in the manual for you. Anything specifically
Oddly enough, it's a project I'll soon be undertaking.
Only yesterday I stripped the mk3 A/C heater box down and refurbished the flaps.
I'll do a bit of a write up on my build thread as it progresses.
Incidentally, if you see a short a/c shelf come up, let me know!
So is there a difference between a standard MK2 head box flappy bit and a MK3 Aircon one?? The fresh air/aircon module is oviously a lot larger but I hoped it would clip on the the MK2 one. At worst I suppose I can split the MK3 heater box when it comes and swap the flaps over.
Re aircon shelf. There is a cover on ebay for silly money. I did think I'd make him a cheeky offer because it's been listed for a long time.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK2-LOWER-DASHBOARD-COVER-FOR-MODELS-WITH-AIR-CON/323773536379?hash=item4b6268187b:g:HHkAAOSwX8RZ3esq
It looks similar to the one Lukeybabes had ie cover no shelf you can catch a glimpse on his car of the month post on the old website..
The bargain I got has a shelf so I'll still be able to put some tat on it to the delight of Sharknose.... ;D
I took a load of measurements when I had another heater box next to it and the dimensions do seem identical.
Even the flap cables have the same movement as the mk2 ones, meaning you can simply remove the dials from a mk3 item and replace it for the sliders of a mk2 one.
Obviously the proof will be when I come to fit it.
Look for rubjonnys build thread. He has MK4 climatronic installed I believe.
I'll have a look at Jon's guide although I think the MK4 heater box is different to the MK2/3 one tho. edit Jon only installed the controller, not the whole HVAC.
I bought a cheap chinese vent control off ebay too:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fresh-Air-Climate-Heater-AC-Control-Unit-Panel-For-VW-Jetta-Golf-MK2-1983-1992/151997018564?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
The moulding isn't great (body a bit bent!) but will dismantle it and put the clear perspex with aircon symbols in mine.
...Excuse my spelling....my typing isn't gr8 but this "B" laptop keeps double typing odd keys!!
The finishing touch.....
https://ibb.co/dtgNjZJ
So last night I decided to swap over the aircon perspex from the cheap Chinese ebay heater control into my OEM one.
Why....because the one from China is bowed! See the daylight in the middle.
https://ibb.co/hcNsZg5
Monkey. Where did you get your aircon switch from and what does it do? Switch the aircon compressor on?
I had given this idea a thought or two, ironically after pulling the compressor off my 20v engine as its dead weight currently, I see this and wonder if i should put it back on.
Keeping an eye on this, would be an awesome upgrade in a mk2 👍
Good luck 🍀
Update.
So this week we were staying in St Neots which is close to where the MK3 aircon setup was patiently waiting to be collected so I made an early morning detour to pick it up along with a couple of other bits.
I'm now back home and comparing the MK3 heater box with a standard MK2 one. I'll post some pics when I've taken a selection since there don't seem to be many on-line.
On the whole there are many similarities. The MK3 aircon module is obviously quite chunky and the blower is mounted vertically not horizontal. The central "mixer" is very similar but the MK3 controls are directly connected to the flaps whereas the MK2 are indirect via additional cogs, they also route slightly differently so I'm not sure if they can be directly swapped over or not The lower bulkhead bolts are positioned differently too.
...tbc tomorrow with a bit of luck!...
I've actually done a bit of work in those respects.
I've had the mk2/mk3 side by side and take some measurements from the matrix pipes (as they will be going through the bulkhead, they were my datum) and the various points, fan intake, various duct points etc. They are all identical.
Furthermore, the cables for the mk2 and mk3 controls actuate the same lengths, so you should be able to unhook the mk3 dials and put the mk2 stuff sliders back in it's place.
Monkey. I recall you mentioning about the cable lengths being the same. I will connect my spare MK2 ones up after work when playtime can begin.
Good luck!
I want to continue my project too, but as my first born is a week away, something tells me I won't be getting the opportunity anytime soon!!
Monkey, don't worry, your bundle of joy will be walking before I finish this!!
So I connected the MK2 cables to the MK3 heater box. First problem is that the screen/footwell heater flap cable routes the opposite way hence that set-up isn't going to work.
It looks like the top of the MK2 heater box case will need to be used if not the whole MK2 heater box with the MK3 aircon module attached. If it is the latter then there will be less issues with the bulkhead bolts since the (edit) UPPER bulkhead bolt is lower down on the MK3 heater box.
The MK2 bottom bulkhead bolt sticks out further that the MK3 one, not sure if the bulkheads are a different pressing or not
Some pics so you can see the differences, I've updated them with some meaningful text.
Aircon Album (https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8)
A bit more progress today...
I was going to morph together the MK2 heater box top with the MK3 base however the clips are the opposite way round...so that won't work!
I still parted the MK3 heater box to fix the flaps It's a messy job. Unfortunately I've run out of foil to cover the replacement foam so I've now got some on order.
I have also modded the MK3 heater box so that the footwell/screen flap works just like in the MK2 I'll share photos when I've taken them. Luckily VW put a piece of plastic in just the right place for the mod.
Playtime again.
I have noted that all the flaps work in the opposite way on the MK3 heater to the MK2. Also the way the footwell/screen flap operates means I'm reverting to using the MK2 heater box with the MK3 HVAC module.
So I got the dash out tonight. It's got to be a good few years since I last did it. That was to fix the heater flaps and re-attach the double-skinned "cardboard" base moulding which routes the warm air to the screen....or not in my case!
I'd forgotten about the screws which hold the side vents in-place what a pita they are - easy if you remove the vent using a flat screwdriver between the vent and the open/shut vent wheel. Also looks like I forgot to put the screws holding the centre vents all those years ago....half a job!
I'm hoping to swap the heater units over this weekend. The difficult bit will be ensuring I make the hole in the bulkhead for the aircon in the correct place.....measure 5 times cut once!
I'm thinking of making a template out of some old bendy ali sheet (gas fire back!) I'll use the MK2 heater bulkhead bolts as the main reference start with a small hole then make it bigger. The clamp and sponge seal for the aircon radiator feed pipes seem to give room for minor adjustments.
I'll share some more pics.
Thursday night I took the heater box out. Interestingly the heater flap repair I'd done all those years ago had partially come adrift. I had cleaned the flaps then used foil tape to cover them. I then covered the flaps with foam and covered that with another layer of foil tape. I don't think I'd put a sufficient overlap of foil tape over the foam. Thankfully I've used a slightly different method this time.
I made a template out of card to know where to make the cut for the HVAC drain pipe. Unfortunately I think it might need a bit of adjustment. The problem is lining the HVAC up in multiple points but without the ability to see between the bulkhead and the HVAC.
Today I made-up the ali template to make the cut-out for that a/c radiator outlet in the bulkhead. I've bolted it in using the bulkhead heater holes and do further checks tomorrow.
I'm hoping fresh eyes on it tomorrow will mean this major hurdle has been overcome.
So there is some good and bad news today.
The bad news first....The bulkhead on a MK3 must be a different pressing to a MK2!
I committed to cutting through the bulkhead for the aircon pipes. Managed to get it all lined-up or so I thought and found that the fresh air inlet in the plenum chamber doesn't line up! The HVAC needs to go flush to the bulkhead but the aircon moulding won't let it....Hmm.
Need to give this some thought!
Progress.....But I need to upload some pics so you can see where I'm at!
So the mobile welder turned-up to sort my frilly inner arches. True to form, removing the plastic arches showed evidence of more rust so that needed chopping out too!
In advance of his arrival I'd made a recess to be welded into the bulkhead but before making a bigger hole in the bulkhead I just needed to check it was a goer!
So on Monday (edit .... DOH Tuesday !!!) the recess was welded in the bulkhead and the heater box all seems to line-up OK. The bulkhead needs a bit of a tidy-up with paint, the grommets putting back in and some seam sealer but happy I've found a solution.
Good progress, get some photos up!
More pics added. Can't find my "work of art" metal recess box (edit: now added).
Made one cereal box model and 3 attempts in metal !!
Aircon Album (https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8)
Lessons learned so far:
The ali template didn't work too well to align everything. Thankfully I only used a template for the condensation outlet.
Using sticky foam so the HVAC fixings made an impression on the bulkhead worked better than the template. (edit - evaporator removed)
++ more to add !
Summary of the bulkhead recess dimensions:
160mm x 120mm x 40mm deep (edit probably better 35mm deep)
If I was doing it again I would have made it "stilton cheese wedged" (edit: for an exact flush fit on the inside would have required a lot more work due to the irregular contours and) that would have required more skilled metalwork skills. When its finished you shouldn't be able to notice the difference from the engine bay.
Playtime again.
I've sealed any gaps round the bulkhead recess with seam sealer and given it a coat of paint. I've also given the bulkhead a fettle sticking sound deadening and carpet under felt on the inside.
I've trial fitted the HVAC and that leads me to the conclusion that my recess box should have been 35mm deep max, not 40mm - the bottom threaded bolt for the HVAC box only just protrudes when the reinforcement frame is fitted - i think I'll un-screw it a little from its plastic mounting which will sort it.
I also removed the white slider "mount" on the far left (RHD) side of the HVAC - that stopped me lining-up the unit properly.
On my late BB there is a cross cut-out in the carpet just where the condensation drip tube exits the bulkhead, unfortunately my bulkhead hole is about 5mm too high but I seem to have sorted it with a round file - Just need to get an extension pipe so it drips in the engine bay and not down the under carpet sound-proofing then manipulate a bung round it.!
I've trial fitted the dash and also the aircon undershelf and they seem to fit fine.
I'm hoping to get everything back together this week since the MOT expires on Friday. I'm not sure I'll have the heater blower working but it looks like I'll be able to do that next week with tips from Rubjonny - wiring isn't my forte!
and another thing...wondered what everyone was on about re headlining dropping. Fed various bits through the boot onto the back seat and must have caught the headlining...next minute the last 2 foot of the headlining dropped...Arrrgh another PitA job!
I seem to be missing a few bits...no doubt the list will get longer!
The HVAC drip pipe has an extension that routes in the engine bay is missing. I'll ring the stealers to see how much it is since I need this to complete the HVAC install. It looks a bit more complex than a simple hose. Our local breakers don't seem to have anything as old as a MK3!
The recirculation flap vacuum bottle. Not sure how this connects. There is an ad for one on ebay but the diagram isn't very clear/helpful.
Various sensors yet to be discovered!
Do you have the solenoid too?
The vacuum bottle needs to have a solenoid that activates the flap.
Wasn't aware of the extension, my drip pipe just protrudes a little farther than the box.
It looks like I need to drill a hole in the bulkhead to allow it to pass through.
I think I probably need the solenoid too. But then I never bought it as a full set-up and I don't want a "breaker" on the drive.
What you will find when you put the HVAC in is the drip pipe ends in-line with the bulkhead....so needs an extension pipe otherwise the drips will ruin the carpet underlay/soundproofing. I looked on t'Internet and on the VW manuals site it seems to show a pipe that exits along the bulkhead. I was going to temporarily use a bit of hose pipe but it would be good to know the actual diameter of the bulkhead hole so I can correctly align mine and add the proper pipe later. If you know please post.
My tip for getting the drip pipe and HVAC bolts lined-up on the bulkhead would be to remove the evaporator from the HVAC then put sticky sponge sheets on the bulkhead in the area that needs holes. Trial fit the HVAC and the bolts and pipe will make an impression in the sponge - drill the holes and all should line up.....Unless you have a car to take measurements from that is!
You can then use the HVAC bolt holes to line-up the bulkhead recess that needs to be welded in.
Hope that makes sense?
Happy for anyone to chip in with constructive comment!
Thanks for the tip, I'll have a go when I (eventually!) get around to installing it.
If you look on Facebook, there is a chap called Leo GS Burley, he regularly breaks mk3s and sold me an entire setup.
Thanks.
Info from the other site:
1h0820119a is the part number for the condensation drip valve and it is the same for MK3 and MK4. The dealers don't have it in stock.
I'm going to take a look at the scrappy tomorrow because I want to get the interior back together.
Ohh, I know what you're on about now!
Good shout with that, I'll get one too.
RESULT.....
I got a drain pipe valve off a MK4 Golf at the scrappy for free today! However because my bulkhead hole was slightly out of alignment (5mm too high) I couldn't get the valve to fit over the drain pipe. The solution was to slightly elongate the hole in the bulkhead and it fits fine now. The drain pipe valve thankfully has a generous flange on it.
FYI The HVAC drip pipe bulkhead hole is a 30mm but just remember when using a hole saw that the hole it bores is slightly bigger than it measures!
I've now bolted the HVAC unit in using the original 2 central bolts with the addition of the 2 new bulkhead bolts in the bulkhead recess - It seems secure enough.
I'm hoping I'll get time to put the dash back in this weekend along with replacing the exhaust and fitting the rear bumper with a new removable towbar!! Hopefully I'll get it MOTd next week!
That's a result!
I had a very quick look at mine this weekend and I too will have to modify my bulkhead with a plate similar to yours.
Something tells me I'll be lucky to get it all running by next summer!
You won't be surprised to hear I didn't get much done at the weekend. Staining a 40+" (edit foot! ) picket fence interfered with progress and the thing isn't finished yet...wish I hadn't started it ;)
Tonight I got the exhaust on (replaced my Jetex for a standard looking stainless jobbie) and had to file the bumper mount holes to fit the towbar..a few mm too narrow. It's a brand new one made by Autohak with a removable tow ball. I'm disappointed it didn't fit perfectly! Thinking Tim's idea to buy a bumper already fitted with a towbar might have been a better idea!
I also set to releasing the ignition barrel since I need to replace that too!
A bit more progress. With guidance from Rubjonny I have wired the blower using the MK3 wiring. I chopped the MK3 blower switch connector off and wired-up to the MK2 blower switch as below:
White to blower switch position 1
White/Black to blower switch position 2
Yellow to blower switch position 3
Red taped up but would go to switch position 4 if I had one.
I've used the original MK2 Red/Black for the live feed.
Tested and working.
The dash is now loosely in and I'm hopeful it will be back together soon!
More pics on the Aircon album
(https://i.ibb.co/ss1MfyR/MK3-HVAC-Installed-View-from-the-engine-bay.jpg)
Hey! That's looking really tidy, good job! 8)
Thanks Monkey. Don't zoom in too much!
I've taken the pics with a £45 GoPro copy. Good quality pics but the date keeps resetting and it's a faff find the pics to download!
Nearly there....getting the HVAC installed that is!
Today I fitted the dash undertrays and cut down the glove box. Need to get a sheet of black plastic make a back. Probably could have made it an inch or so longer but there should be enough room for some gloves and with a bit of luck some cassettes/CDs.
...actually just remembered I have the Fischer CBox !
Dash installed (https://ibb.co/7VYFWZj)
I now need to move onto the gubbins in the engine bay.
An update:
A selection of pics to view...I still haven't sussed how to embed the whole album of pics in the post!
HVAC is all in and the car is useable, its partially back in bits to finish off fitting/wiring the heated seats. I've been WFH since March so "uncommon" ly need to use the Golf!
I've just bought a heated windscreen which I'd like to get working before the bad weather too.
https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8
Still having problems getting some of the parts for the engine bay....MK3 pulleys etc!
It's been a while. Managed to buy myself some pulleys!
Crank (bargain double act Rib P/N 037105243A & V P/N 037105253) and waterpump P/N 037121031F - circa £20 each off ebay (part numbers provided by guru Rubjonny. Just need to get one for the alternator. However it's probably going to be a better idea for me to get a more powerful secondhand alternator, hopefully it will come with a ribbed pulley. That should mean there are no issues with the additional electrical goodies (which incidentally still need wiring-up!)
I also need to sort out the drive for the PAS pump.. I've heard that I may need to swap the PAS pump for a "long-shaft" pump. Bearing in mind the ribbed pulleys are wider than the V pulleys. Thoughts are I'll have both ribbed and V belts.
Update
So last weekend I stuck my head under the bonnet......
I "trial" fitted the MK3 alternator tensioner so I could see what was involved. It has mounts for the PAS pump, the aircon compressor and the alternator, the latter sits lower down than on the MK2. Noted that the MK3 has a shorter PAS pivot bolt than the MK2 so referred to "guru" Jon on that other well known site. Jon confirmed I needed to swap the whole PAS pump set-up including the adjuster (that works like a MK2 alternator adjuster). He also suggested an upgrade to a 90Amp+ alternator to provide sufficient charge for the extra electrical goodies. Managed to get all 3 bits off ebay from the same seller. He might even have the heater recirc solenoid which would be gr8.
So all I need now is a bit of time and some good weather and swap all that over. Its no fun doing this on the drive!
Some welcome sunshine "Up North" to help proceedings!
Today I took the standard MK2 radiator off and trial fitted the MK3 condenser I originally got with the HVAC and other bits. It's gonna be a tight fit and I will have to mod the slam panel to cater for the compressor connection. I want to mount the condenser as low as possible but the cross member is restricting my options. I think I might check the weather forecast for the week and have a days holiday of greasy fingers!
More progress this week.....no greasy fingers holiday tho!
Monkey did a reveal of the lupo condensor he fitted to his R32 ali radiator. A browse of ebay showed up a new one for £12.95 delivered..yes really...It would have been rude to leave it, so I ordered it and it arrived earlier this week. The only minor issue is the top pipe is bent but that means it should be less intrusive....that is now fitted to the radiator and a trial fit looks promising. I now need to cut the slam panel so it fits.
I also took the plunge and fitted the ribbed belt crank pulley I bought. I unbolted the alternator, PAS pump and left them connected in the engine bay. I also fitted the MK3 PAS adjuster bracket which looks a much better design. Then put plenty of Plusgas on the PAS pump connector hoping it would release easily....Fortunately it came loose and a further dowsing of 3in1 saw the union revolving round the PAS pipe....Phew!
Looks like the union is an imperial 9/16..'cos my metric spanners didn't fit snug.
I trial fitted the MK3 PAS/alternator/compressor (PAC) bracket which replaces the smaller MK2 PAS bracket but it wasn't fitting snug. Time to call it a day...
So last night I looked at the well-known video repair manual....aka You Tube. I'd fitted the bolt which holds the waterpump/lower cambelt cover with the nut on the gearbox side, hence it was slightly proud!
So now I need some parts...
Loosening the waterpump means I now need a new seal. How much!!!! Thought it would only be a few quid need to ring the B&B guys.
I bought the PAS seal from the dealers thinking it was going to be a large brass washer but what I got was an expensive small seal hoping it's the right one.
I'm also thinking of cleaning and painting the MK3 "PAC" bracket because it's a bit grubby.
I'm hoping I can get everything back together so its drivable in the next couple of weeks.
Today I managed to grab a few hours off work and had a tinker on the car.
I used some oven cleaner on the PAC mount and its looking a lot better. I did consider painting it but I think I'll leave it as is.
I fitted the MK3 PAS pump. I'm hoping the small seal that fits on the end of the pipe is all that is required. I'll also renew the PAS fluid too since it was a while since it was last changed. I also took the pulley off the waterpump.
I'll take some photos tomorrow so you can see how far over the belts move when changing to ribbed belt and the improved MK3 PAS adjustment.
Bought the waterpump seal from the local VW dealer..£7.30ish.. If I'd been patient and got a list together I could have bought it from VW Heritage much cheaper...but then there is the delivery cost.
The project is "nudging" forward! Yay!
This is probably aimed at Monkey more than anyone else...
I've looked at the slam panel which I need to cut to allow the rad and aircon condensor to fit correctly. Unfortunately the condensor top outlet aligns with the double-skin of the horn mount....sods law!
I was going to use hole saw and jigsaw to remove the metal with the slam panel in-situ, will that work?
I'm getting a bit fed up of taking more stuff apart before moving forward...here's hoping!
A few more pics uploaded to:
Aircon Album (https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8)
Hopefully I'll get a bit more done the weekend / next week....
I'd seriously take the slam panel off to do the work, it's actually not too bad, a 10mm socket will see nearly everything you need off.
I had to heavily modify my slam panel, as I have a huge engine and radiator in the way, but you shouldn't have to do this part.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49179951906_117227892d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hVS7ih)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2hVS7ih) by Dave Ackerman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152481044@N07/), on Flickr
If you look at this photo, you can see the notch I had to take out of the slam panel, though you'll won't need the extra bit on the right.
This was just a mock up slam panel I'm cutting about to make everything fit before I fit the good one.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50498582287_886b4f4647_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jWoraR)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2jWoraR) by Dave Ackerman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152481044@N07/), on Flickr
I highly recommend you take it off and use a grinder (if you're used to them, that is), as you'll make a better job than a jigsaw.
Thanks Monkey.
I was hoping that I would only be removing the metal on the back face of the slam panel hence could leave it in situ. I'll have a look what is involved tomorrow.
I have some carry over leave from last year so I really do want to make some progress this next week.
Interestingly the front offside floor is now dry as a bone even after all this recent mad weather/rain. I suspect there was a leak, now fixed but I was also suffering from lots of condensation. The rear carpet is still drying out tho. Here's hoping.
So today I removed the slam panel to make a cut-out for the AC condensor....Unfortunately the slam panel is a bit crusty with rust so I may need a new one. I used a hole saw and it faired quite well but wasn't man enough to cut through the double skinned metal, more shopping!
I also fitted the what turns out to be not a "PAC", but an C & A mount...It replaces the MK2 PAS swivel mount and secures both the AC compressor and the MK3 alternator.. It is now obvious why the mount has cut-outs for the compressor bolts because you need to fit the compressor bottom bolt first - good access from below the car, but the top bolt is too long to fit (Chassis rail in the way when the compressor is in. So you have to put the top bolt in about an inch and twist it into the "cut-out"...I'll take a retrospective piccy. That took a few mins of thinking !
Finally put the slam panel back and fitted the rad...hmm The MK2 8v radiator bottom outlet lines-up nicely with the side of the compressor....looks like I need to change the rad..I think 16v ones are smaller aren't they ??
Time-out to think on the next plan of attack and shop for parts.
Album updated
Aircon Album (https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8)
After responses to a couple of posts on CLUBGTI from Rubjonny and Davidut5 who has actually done the aircon retrofit I ordered a MK2 aircon rad from Latvia (circa £47 all in) that was the only one I could find on ebay RADAD (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radiator-Fits-VW-Golf-Mk2-Jetta-II-Mk-83-92-191121251C/132853204291?pageci=dd9ec4f1-e8e8-42b4-9f5f-1d06eb0d155e).....I must have been half asleep since there are some local UK suppliers I've subsequently found. The rad is about 675mm wide but the bottom hose outlet is angled down hence the hose will route under the compressor. Because the rad will sit snug in the first cross member hole next to the battery the existing top hose should be fine but I've ordered a new bottom hose. I've tempoarily rigged the existing rad up so I can flush the system of crap.
I tried to fit an 1148mm ribbed aux belt which is apparently a standard aircon fit but no joy. I had to fit a 1155mm and remove the alternator bolt so I could get it over. That's now sorted.
I now need to get a new v belt for the waterpump and PAS because none of mine are the right size - hmm.
Whist the PAS fluid is drained I've treated the resevoir to a dishwasher tablet soak. Might do that with the expansion tank too.
I have made another cut in the slam panel using a hacksaw since it looks like the original hole is in the wrong position. Luckily that cut is mainly through a single skin of metal. Not too bothered because the slam panel needs replacing due to it being rusty.
Driver's side floor still appears to be dry. I must have had some leak in the bulkhead since the indicators aren't working (hazzards are) and all leccy windows except for the drivers have stopped working too... Arrrgh.
The new rad arrived from Latvia on Thursday, well packed and undamaged.
On Bank Holiday Friday I connected the PAS up and fitted a new V belt. After the "minor" issue with the clutch I took the car for a run round - all good.
Have made-up some strips of metal so I can attach the fan cowling and condensor to the bigger rad.
Today its snowing!!!!
A little more progress...and I mean a little!
The new rad is in along with the the correct upper and lower hoses...With hindsight I should have used the aftermarket product codes (eg Gates) for the hoses and I could have got both hoses quicker from UK suppliers along with the aircon rad...lesson learned.
I made some metal strips so that both the condenser and fan shroud attach using the mounts on the sides of the rad. I didn't want to put holes through the perfectly straight fins. They could do with painting the strips properly which I'll do at a later stage, really wanted to stop them rusting.
I've trial fitted the Aircon hoses but don't have a clue how they route, particularly the evaporator (heater box) to compressor hose which is really long so must take a convoluted route . I think it goes in front of the radiator but now I've fitted the radiator I don't really want to remove it again. I may remove the grille, loosen the rad so I can move it across and see if I can work it out, otherwise cut it and route it along the cross member forward of the PAS pipes.....pondering. We have a few local companies that should be able to splice in the correct length of hose.
The pipe which goes from the evaporator to the drier routes across the top of the firewall and guess what ...that too seems to have a kink in the wrong place making it the wrong shape and a bit long. I'll do a bit of pipe bending to see if i can lose a bit of length since it is currently against the suspension mount, if not I'll modify that too. Fortunately the hose from the compressor to the condenser appears to fit fine but they are only about 600mm apart!
If I do use the original aircon hoses I'll have to move the expansion tank because the hose ends won't fit with it in its original location. I've temporarily undone both mounting nuts and moved the expansion tank forward as a temporary solution (attached only by the front mount), That seems to have done the trick. I wonder if the MK3 expansion tank mounting bracket is different ?
The indicators are still dodgy, sometimes the light stays on. I thought it was damp in the fuse box but a chance wriggle of the indicator stalk makes them flash...assume the switch is worn. Luckily I have a replacement.
More pics in the album:
Aircon Album (https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8)
..... Oh that seems soo obvious now.....
I went to see a MK3 with aircon installed and I I've realised why the pipe from the evaporator won't fit...The MK3 is longer with a different shaped front...I guess I'll cut the MK3 pipes I have and get a local hydraulics company to join as appropriate. I'll use my plumbing pipe cutters !!
Hi, I've got a mk2 with factory aircon, not a great deal of direct help but maybe useful to see how they routed stuff etc.
Happy to send pics etc.
Out of interest the factory mk2 aircon airbox flaps all operate by vacuum hoses not cables.
Also the A/C cars (like the towing prepared cars) had the most powerful (250/150w) two speed fans (and two speed temp switches) and they ran on full speed whenever the A/C is switched on. Might be worth bearing that in mind.
Chris.
Hi Chris.
When I started on the road of installing this aircon I thought it was going to be much easier than it has been. With hindsight it would have been easier to pay for a MK2 aircon system but it wouldn't have been as much FUN....take that as an acronym for which the first word will be obvious :D
I think I will use the aircon pipe ends which connect into the evaporator but I will get a local pneumatic pipe company to make up the extension into the dryer and to the pipe joint at the top of the fan shroud. The pipe from the fan shroud to the compressor (it joins there) and the pipe from the compressor to the top of the condenser are good to use. Finally the pipe from the bottom of the condenser will need to be made up because the MK3 one is too short! Perhaps some pics will help.
Once I've sorted that it will need wiring up. I don't have too good a history of wiring stuff up tho :D
It would be good to complete this summer however I fear that won't happen.
I do have a twin speed fan and am aware that the fan is required to help cool the refrigerant.
I'll replace the broken front big bumper side slides when I install the dryer since on the MK3 it fits in the front drivers wheel arch, There seems to be a circular mount there but I'm not sure what that is for, it's bigger than the dryer
Here's hoping for speedier progress!
edited to add pics...
https://ibb.co/x6VTvCW (https://ibb.co/x6VTvCW)
https://ibb.co/Tbz34bv (https://ibb.co/Tbz34bv)
https://ibb.co/b2jP2m7 (https://ibb.co/b2jP2m7)
https://ibb.co/zPSg38h (https://ibb.co/zPSg38h)
I really must push on with my AC project at some point.
I've been driving it about recently and remember why I started the project now!
So yesterday I thought I'd go to Pirtek a pnuematic/aircon supplies company to see what I could cobble together. Their website said they opened at 8AM Saturday. I arrived at 815 and at 845 I rang the oncall number on the gate. Due to covid they no-longer work Saturdays. Hmmmm I'm a Mon-Fi 9-5er!
I think I need an extended lunch-break to move this forward.
Pirtek are pricey but should be able to sort, I went to them for a PAS hose on 308 before. Can't remember if I used them or another company due to price.
I'll put some pics of the A/C up tomorrow, the dryer on the mk2 is bottom nearside of the condenser directly connected to the condenser.
The A/C belt from the crank double pulley has jumped off twice in the past two days, been on for months fine.
Real pita as the alternator is driven from the compressor pulley so if the A/C one jumps/snaps you lose alternator and eventually the thing grinds to a halt. Not to mention the belt is captive as it's on the inner bottom pulley (PAS/water pump is on the outer) so if it jumps it just hangs there waiting to shred itself or jam something.
Can only be that the compressor or the compressor/alternator mounting bracket has moved and it's gone out of alignment wit the crank pulley, doesn't look bad but it's dark. The amount I had to move the compressor on it's adjuster to get the belt back on is crazy so it was definitely tight.
Got three new correct belts coming from Germany and I think I've even found a 026105243A, the holy grail of belt pulleys which has the rubber shock absorber built in, mine perished and fell to pieces and I replaced with an all metal one as couldn't find the correct one at the time so that might be having a negative effect with regard the belt jumping; the shock absorbing pulley is the inner one and only for A/C models. Hopefully I get an email from the Czech Republic tomorrow..
Chris.
Once I've sorted that it will need wiring up. I don't have too good a history of wiring stuff up tho :D
The wiring to pull the compressor in is pretty simple actually, just a circuit with a dash switch and the HP and LP refrig switches in series and the fan relay can be done a couple of ways.
I have the engine bay wiring loom from the MK3 so that bit of the wiring should be sorted when I've separated it. Not all of it is labelled up especially the aircon sensors.
Re the aux belts. It''s now MK3 ribbed for the alternator and compressor.
Once I've sorted that it will need wiring up. I don't have too good a history of wiring stuff up tho :D
The wiring to pull the compressor in is pretty simple actually, just a circuit with a dash switch and the HP and LP refrig switches in series and the fan relay can be done a couple of ways.
I might come back to you with some more specific queries if that is OK?
So not much progress with the aircon but had an auto electrician do the wiring of the electrical goodies up although the heated screen needs a bit more work.
I've been stuck on how to fit the aircon hoses for a while since the MK3 set-up isn't a direct fit!
The adapters and hose I "borrowed" from Pirtek were a bit chunky for my liking. I've looked at a few You Tube vids and in the US hot rodders use a clip together system.
I went to Carlton Hydraulics in Rotherham and they showed me Burgaclip by Burgaclip UK. That looks a neat system which I need to look at further. I think I'll use what I can of the MK3 piping/hoses and match-up with the Burgaclip. Time to look through their catalogue. Noted that the threads (US standard for aircon) match and the flanges all except for the drier too. But they said they could sort that.
Carlton Hydraulics have the list of Burgaclip connectors I require and I'm waiting for them to get back to me with a price. Hopefully they won't be too expensive. The ends are secured using a plastic carrier over the hose to which 2 x "mini driveshaft boot" clips are secured. That means it can be a DIY job (using other connectors means that crimping needs to be done with an expensive tool and the ends need to be orientated correctly). Burgaclip vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_7KtAjXDLQ)
The Ali clamp which secures the pipes to the evaporator may need some thought since the high pressure side is manufactured on the original pipe. However this doesn't fit with the expansion bottle in its original position. I've cut it so there is a "U" both sides but I'm not sure that will maintain a seal since the pressure is quite high.
Just surfing You Tube and seen a guy in America has put aircon into his hod rod. This clip is 5mins long and shows that he's put a domestic unit in the boot with a disguised mains generator in an old trunk hooked on the back...
Only in America!
Domestic Aircon in a Hot Rod ! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw_pHouc0KI)
Rubjonny has shared a pic of his MK4 climatronic install. Note he didn't have to do major surgery to his bulkhead....hmm should have been a "follower"
Climatronic HVAC in a MK2 bulkhead (https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/im-putting-a-1-9-pd-into-a-mk2-3-door-chassis-can-i-keep-air-con.291546/#post-2503214)
Yeah, Rubjonny is a bit of a guru on all things mk2 and VW in general!
The wiring to pull the compressor in is pretty simple actually, just a circuit with a dash switch and the HP and LP refrig switches in series and the fan relay can be done a couple of ways.
Tonight I set about stripping off all the MK3 engine wiring. I've tried to remove the appropriate connectors out of the wiring blocks but paperclips aren't doing the biz. Was wondering whether to just chop them and replace.
If anyone can share a diagram of the wiring it would be helpful. It isn't in my MK3 Haynes.
I've located the connector for the dryer and compressor but not sure about the outside temp and deffo not sure about HP and LP switch connectors but if I have some wire colours to go on/connector types I could work it out.
Edit. Just found this.
MK3 AC wiring (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AOaemvKQqT3zFZlhgS3arfdMX9zpxlLqXA%3A1637100771184&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=mk3%20golf%20aircon%20wiring%20diagram&client=ms-android-samsung&fir=bfbsGfLYDyV9EM%252CXAAM2elrA8a7dM%252C_%253Bx7Bz7SeFrGo-sM%252C14Kc8zJcB2N_TM%252C_%253BDqrq7gKl43AEkM%252CHUPY2qV8iuXrAM%252C_%253BbOx06RRqcE59IM%252CgFmmxqzuH-GUkM%252C_%253BgsaIlyTTmga1hM%252CXAAM2elrA8a7dM%252C_%253BEWa5OPkT5N60kM%252C14Kc8zJcB2N_TM%252C_%253B7YLXOM39ZpWQ0M%252CCSC42ShdzHtU3M%252C_%253BTg8Sz3BTPdwQTM%252CDFl3ToSAG1vlzM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kRw-yaFgsvIlsq_yynuJvK2rMONNg&ved=2ahUKEwiw8L7h8530AhUMQ_EDHWi2AMQQv7IFegQIARAF&biw=360&bih=560&dpr=3#imgrc=nV4WvIDimsWQxM)
Re the pipework. VW use aluminium for the aircon pipework however the aftermarket hose fittings are steel which creates a problem.
I've been wondering how I could clamp the Burgaclip hoses to the Evaporator. I've modified the fastening but not sure the small "U" cut-out will hold the high pressure hose in situ (it was originally a hole) however that obviously won't fit over the pipe flange. The alternative is to get the new connector cut put a new clamp on it, then get the pipe welded. Unless I can use some magic?
Evaporator Clamp (https://ibb.co/4KkQCZh)
Hey, sorry for the (very) late reply.
US A/C 88-89 Golf 8v GTI from Bentley:
(https://i.ibb.co/Zhd8gfb/20220126-215310.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/5GTSKmQ/20220126-215321.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/82tVbgn/20220126-215340.jpg)
I'll post the UK GTI one shortly.
(Not the mk3 ones you were looking for but hopefully helpful)
Thanks Chris. I'm afraid I'm scratching my head when it comes to anything more than basic wiring!
So with the weather picking-up I thought I'd do some prep to move the project forward.
I started stripping the required strands of spaghetti from the MK3 engine loom.This is where you realise the more the loom has been moved around pending stripping the harder it is to trace out the required wires. Oh what F.U.N.
It's now time to bite the bullet, buy the pipework and get the wiring done.
As soon as the red one is finished, I want to pick my project back up too.
I'm fed up of turning the fan on and getting showered with bits of foam!
I do believe mating the MK4 HVAC to the MK2 heater box is the better option since it won't need much bulkhead modding. A bit late for me tho.
I understand Rubjonny was looking at using the MK4 pipework which all runs down the driver's side, however looking at on in a breaker's yard this week I'm not convinced. However he has better knowledge than I.
I may yet switch over to a mk4 unit. Though the mk3 has the vacuum unit for the recirc flap that I can use.
I've actually reinstalled ac into a mk4 and installed those very pipes.
While it is possible, I'll take a tip from the Bad obsession motorsport guys and run it in flexible AN pipework.
That way I can make a much neater job and don't have to be too precious of where everything is.
Would it be possible to get the part number / photograph of the vacuum reservoir and recirculation solenoid? I'm currently following this thread to install aircon into my MK2 R32 conversion but I'm struggling with the above components. Thank you
Vac tank is P/N 1H0 820 601 I haven't got the valve yet!.
Vac Tank Images (https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=APq-WBv86tkEFn1yccxxDlM5IjyvJh5-Pg%3A1648748316038&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=1H0%20820%20601&client=ms-android-att-us&fir=ECbNLqgqWykvCM%252CgkbStI7UFy7ICM%252C_%253BLt1Mrge4Y6cHbM%252CIp2nuGaqEgbwiM%252C_%253BXEXBvOnAeigPEM%252CTW9Ijm9TERR6pM%252C_%253BKwC7oYfCv3apFM%252CwfGjN8v_xZNtqM%252C_%253BLkOg_d2qHxVNAM%252CFrSY4JsyUWhFDM%252C_%253BPaCAePTdXY8ViM%252Ca25LRgjDks67JM%252C_%253B8dEqpMlizgTdEM%252CJmWUuhhvhOgvWM%252C_%253BknEyU-7yd204vM%252CUDEduwqHRy8BIM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kRCoxse3N4uczg4sEeI7Fc2DXMFtQ&ved=2ahUKEwiE6d288vD2AhXqQUEAHXsEA64Qv7IFegQIARAF&biw=360&bih=615&dpr=3)
I believe the MK4 HVAC doesn't use a vacuum for the recirculation flap.
That’s perfect, thank you
Bit the bullet and bought the required hose and fittings.
Bugaclip Hose and fittings (https://ibb.co/yWRtb7L)
All I need to do now is to trial fit it, cut the hoses, put some "line-up" marks on the hose and fittings then return to Carlton Hydraulics to install the "cages" which hold the fittings. The hose isn't crimped so can be altered/replaced in the future.
I'm hoping to use the original MK3 compressor hoses however the thread on the connector to the condenser isn't great. Annoyingly there's problems with ali/ali ans steel/ali connections they like to fuse together 😕.
I have a new nut (2 × freebies) but trouble is getting someone to cut/weld the pipe back up.
edit: I've been wondering what the "supercharger-type" whining from the engine bay is.....I think it might be the aircon compressor bearings. The compressor has been fitted a while but obviously not piped-up. I guess the bearings get lubricated by the oil in the system? Oops!
Ohh dear, if you've had the compressor on and clutch engaged, chances are that might had damaged the compressor.
I had a mk4 where the previous owner had just cut the pipes as he didn't care about the ac.
I had to replace the whole shooting match.
So there are a few things I've learnt doing this.
DON'T DO IT 😅
Pneumatic fitting suppliers only seem to supply steel fittings whereas VW uses Ali pipework so some thought is needed as to what any new piping/fittings can/can't be used. Also some of the VW ends aren't available (MK3 compressor)
Rubjonny used a MK4 HVAC which means less chopping of the bulkhead.
Aside from both pipes to the compressor none of the other pipes fit directly to a RHD shell (the expansion tank gets in the way). The hose from the compressor to the evaporator will need undoing at the mid joint and the half going to the evaporator replacing.
Having said that I'm now going to make some more progress to complete this.
Would really appreciate some help with the wiring. I've stripped what I think is required from the MK3 loom.
So there are a few things I've learnt doing this.
DON'T DO IT 😅
Literally the first job I'm going to do when I've finished the red one!!
As for the wiring, I've been thinking about this.
My plan is to pull a +12v from the ac fuse in the fuse box, run it through the AC switch on the dash, out to the high and low pressure switch, then into the compressor clutch connector. Then just run a ground to the other connector on the clutch.
I did consider getting a couple of relays and hook them up to the high and low pressure switches, that would be safer for the switches and allow me to fault find easier. Might still be the way forward actually.
Ohh dear, if you've had the compressor on and clutch engaged, chances are that might had damaged the compressor.
I had a mk4 where the previous owner had just cut the pipes as he didn't care about the ac.
I had to replace the whole shooting match.
Oops. I thought that the clutch would be set to engage the compressor if it was powered. I guess all the internal pistons will be well worn now.
I did a test fit of the new fittings and found the dryer to Condenser thread pitch is different to the others so they have changed that. Carlton are based in Rotherham which is an inconvenient 20 mile round trip for me to collect it.
Here's what the Burgaclip fittings look like when they are crimped, its a shame the "cage" is blue, much better if it was red to match the car :)
I suspect I could remove most of it since I think its purpose is to help align the hose clamps when fitting - We'll see!
(https://i.ibb.co/mh5fLVc/20220615-221550.jpg)
I've also got a replacement secondhand compressor from Leo Burley. I've spun the pulley which seems to rotate freely without the clutch engaged so could the other one have been faulty? Hopefully this is a "good-un".
Hopefully this weekend I'll get some time to trial fit the fittings and hoses but I've succumbed to that tempting Eibach/Bilstien suspension kit on ebay just before its latest price hike. The rear is fitted, just need to do the front. However I think it's going to revert to the annoying "nose-slightly-up" stance :/
I’m looking to cut out the recess myself this week. Did you stick with the MK2 main heater body and modify the MK3 aircon side to fit or fit the complete MK3 heater box?
Cheers
You need to keep the central heater/diverted box. This will mate to the MK3/4 HVAC which is MASSIVE compared to the MK2.
As noted earlier, Rubjonny on Club GTI fitted a MK4 HVAC. Which doesn't need such drastic surgery!
Page 2 - 7th Sept update (https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/mk3-air-con-in-a-mk2.264574/page-2)
I'm sure Jon posted a pic somewhere....
Just found a YouTube vid on bending MK4 ali aircon pipes. That would have been handy to have seen a year ago ☺
Bending Ali aircon pipes (https://youtu.be/sgGT5Ia_f9U)
Appreciate that, thank you
So a bit of "fettling" today.
Fitted the old dryer to trial fit the hoses. Unfortunately I could probably do with different connectors but I think I can work with what I've got.
There is some circular mount in the front of the driver's wing that limits how you can mount the dryer. I originally drilled my holes in the inner wing but then found that the dryer electrical connection was up against the inner wheel arch liner so I had to twist it round a bit more. I've attached some "P Clips" along the bulkhead using some M5 ultra thin headed bolts. This allows the scuttle cover to fit properly. I used a bit of hose pipe to gauge the length of hose required for the dryer to condensor.
Unfortunately the "crimping" of Burgaclip connectors are a different thickness to the VW ali pipes. I'm unsure if my "modded" evaporator clamp is good enough for the job of sealing the hoses, seems OK but I've noted that the "connector" can be taken off so I guess I could have it machined if not.
I might take a day off this week to get the hoses crimped so its all connected-up except for the compressor. I'll replace the one in situ when I have some working wiring in-place.
More Aircon pics... (https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8)
I can see why you're telling people not to do it now!
There was a genuine mk2 air con set up listed for sale the other day….. in need of restoring but sounded like a lot less hassle. I’ll make do with my sunroof on hot days.
Hi Tim, yes I saw that on FB. There is also a LHD one on there too. Be interesting to know if it sells for £700.
My experience just highlights when you mix and match different parts there will be challenges 😅.
But that is part of the F.U.N.
Earlier this week I dropped in on an engineering shop in Sheffield to see if they could sort the misaligned "HVAC connector clamp". They rang me yesterday to say it was ready. They needed to make the cut-out for the large flange bigger (the flange is a slightly bigger diameter than the one on the MK3 original).
Today I finished the cutting of the Burgaclip hoses and took the hoses and fittings to Carlton to crimp the joints. Unfortunately they weren't able to do all the 3 because they had run out of the "cages", the "Main Burgaclip man" is on holiday this week so I need to go back to get that sorted :(
I'll have to go back anyway because I've noticed a mis-alignment of the clips...Maybe it's me but I do like things on show to align. Things like door knob screws too ! Grrrrr
More Aircon pics... (https://ibb.co/album/bWZcr8)
Can't be long now!
Aside from fitting the pipework, replacing the compessor and getting the system gassed it's the wiring that is the stumbling block!
I rang "The Man" at Carlton today and hopefully they should have more "cages" in stock next week. He should also be able to sort the "mis-aligned" join too ☺
The final hoses connected up, need to get it pressure tested now. Unfortunately the guy at Carlton couldn't re-crimp the hose so it is still mis-aligned, arh, onwards and upwards.
I didn't realise when I offered-up my "O" rings at the national meet for the record breaking head gasket replacement I'd handed over one I needed so that meant another visit to City Bearings and Seals, but no big deal.
The 90deg joint next to the battery is a bit tight and the use of a tie-wrap to secure the x-over pipes isn't ideal but I can work on those.
(https://i.ibb.co/Qd6YC7k/Engine-bay-all-A-c-hoses-fitted.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/B6WCGc4/Modded-HVAC-Clamp.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/cxkMd9r/Dryer-Underneath-the-front-driver-039-s-wing.jpg)
Now to the wiring. rubjonny has shared the MK3 wiring diagram. I can't match any of the wire colours to the ones I've stripped out...Hehe !
Getting so close now!