I have collected all the bits to fully refurb the rear suspension but I have one bit missing.
It is described as an 'underlay' and looks like a washer turned up in the centre - part code is 321 512 109.
It is NLA of course from VW and is not available from VW Heritage or anywhere else it seems.
Anybody happen to have pair or know where they can be sourced?
Thanks in hope!
I typed in the part no into google and they are available on amazon postage is very high the part was cheap. There were other sites advertising they had stock.
Thanks - I have tried this but every site I look at has no stock or the part is NLA - like in the pic from Amazon which does not seem to have attached so copy url.!
Please can you send a link to the websites that you have found have stock.
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Original-Volkswagen-Suspension-Plunderlay-321512109/dp/B077H4KSGX
If you find them I want two. I couldn't source any last year so I assembled my rear suspension without them.
Edit; I didn't have any on when I took the suspension apart. That means they were never on or I discarded them back in the 90s.
https://www.maxspeed.ae/carparts/product/VW/321512109/ this site appears to have them
A bargain.....maybe not after postage ;D
I wonder if they have alternative VAG part numbers?
I know it's not OEM but surely you can get plastic ones. My Koni shocks have them I'll compare the diameters of them. Not sure what purpose they serve though.
Yep thanks SCS, I did spot that one but was put off by the postage initially. But then I was tempted until I read some of the reviews (not on their site of course). Nearly all scary stuff - take money and no response, been waiting weeks and weeks etc. But mainly silence when e-mailed so I am not going to risk spending over £100.
If I find a source I will post on here but please if anybody else can find a supplier that would be great.
Re’ ‘underlay’ necessity:
Had a similar arrangement on BMW M3 (2004). Handbook clearly stated that this washer be refitted, and right way up, to avoid the shock from tearing through the rubber bushing located under the sheet metal mount area?
In fact I had a local garage replace my original units with a premium brand, at great expense, and shortly after driving away the car made horrible noises from rear near side. On return to garage they claimed the rubber bushing with my branded shock kit wasn’t up to the job and had ruptured. At further expense they fitted OEM items which dealt with problem. I’m of opinion that the mechanic failed to refit the washers on assembly first time?
Thanks Marcosgt. In my case there is no rubber to protect but the spring is a loose fit on the damper body i.e. the bottom diameter of the spring is about 2-3 mm larger than the damper body. I believe the underlay is there to take up the slack and keep the spring central to the damper. Any thoughts anybody on my reasoning?
The underlay is pressed steel so I'm not sure it performs a centering function. It probably is an underlay; something that gives the spring an even surface to sit on and press onto as the suspension compresses.
My car has been fine without it for almost 30 years. I don't think it is critical.
I'd looked into this around the middle of last year - Isaac 1992 8v (https://www.vwgolfmk2.co.uk/clubforum/index.php?topic=117.105)
Bottom line was 321 512 109 is NLA from main streaam suppliers and according to any outlet I spoke to it wasn't superseded by VW.
There's 1J0 512 109 still available which serves the same purpose on later VW's / Skodas but have been advised isn't interchangable.
Those don't cost much and I did intend to get one to try / find out for myself, but never did for the reasons below.
I changed out my shocks for Bilsteins (kept the original springs) and they came with all the hardware for the job, though tellingly that didn't include an 'underlay'.
From the images you'll see why as it wouldn't fit anyway, the spring and support are a snug fit with no play.
From what I gather an 'underlays' purpose on any car is to contribute towards insulating against noise / vibration.
Presumably metal ones do the job, but rubber also seems to be common.
This may or may not be a modern day replacement - again I never took things any further, but you can see from the image that it's possible.
Energy Suspension (https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/15.6103#fitment),
If anyone does explore these further, be interesting to hear how you got on.
L90E you are a mine of information.
I saw the pic, L90E, of your assembly and the spring was a snug fit on the damper with no room for an underlay. The difference with mine is the that the 'boss' on the spring support is underneath not above the support - see pic. This means that there is a 2 mm gap all around between the spring and the damper body - see pic. Hence, I thought the underlay being steel would make up that gap and keep the spring centred.
Hopefully the pics will show??
(https://i.ibb.co/9b0QLdv/S1033382.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/D7Z2PpV/S1033384.jpg)
I forgot to mention I bought the 1J0 512 109 but it is too large - the internal diameter is about 55 when the damper is only 40.
Cheers... good to finally confirm 1J0 512 109 doesn't interchange.
Your spring disc (No. 5) looks to be integral to the shock body or is it a separate, removable piece as with the Bilsteins?
If so and the measurements correspond you might be able to substitute the likes of one from Febi (18843) where the flange faces upwards?
(https://volkswagen.7zap.com/ImgsWatermark/images//Bilder/014/014106100.png)
I've seen springs available that have a portion of their length encased with plastic tubing. Rightly or wrongly I thought that was for a similar reason, to help reduce noise / vibration. Maybe your shocks were intended for such springs, the gap allowing for that outer plastic cover, just speculating?
What brand are the shocks?
It is integral L90E and the shocks are Meyle from VW Heritage - listed as suitable for PB engine (8v GTI). Ditto springs. In fact most stuff is from VWH. Yep I could get it about the plastic encasement but might be difficult to find something suitable. Should all be jsut 'plug and play' if from the same source.
Took a while but found again some of the references I'd seen last year.
Hopefully it'll not set a red light off in some Govt. office but this is on a russian VW forum... doesn't tell you anything you don't already know, but there's a couple of images showing the underlay in position - Link (https://vwts.ru/forum/topic/71932/)
Same part is used on B3 Passats, a couple of written references stating the underlay acts to center the spring around the shock - probably makes equal sense as any other explaination.
Piccie from another forum of tube encased springs - Eibechs and just on the front pair.
(https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?attachments/20211015_202604-jpg.23438/)
Went through the Meyle on-line catalogue and cross referenced what I think you've bought from Hertiage.
If I've got it right plus they haven't made an error and sent you incorrect stuff it should have the following numbers either on the items and / or the packaging.
Rear spring - 100 051 0002 and / or MCS 0103, (corresponds to VW# 191 511 115 A, as per 7Zap)
Rear shock - 126 715 0006 and / or MSA 0107, (corresponds to VW# 1H0513031 D, as 7Zap again)
If it does all check out properly then it's looking like Meyle / Heritage are assuming you've the underlays to take up the slack and factored that into their specs.
Read back over the earlier posts, including last years. I know it's no consolation, but I think you've helped solve the mystery... the underlays are for nothing more than to center the springs around the shocks.
If they'd been rubber or similar I'd maybe include acting as insulation too but they look so flimsy I can't see them making any difference there.
Might be worth talking it over with Heritage, maybe they have a known solution?
At the least they should be made aware and consider highlighting the need for an (unobtainable) underlay before purchase?
If you haven't fitted anything another option might be to return it?
Do you have some of the later 1J0 512 109's?
Could maybe be made to fit if a segment was cut from them so they close in around the shock, spring should hold them firm when insitu... just thoughts!
Thanks again L90E - you are a mine of information. The Russian website was a really good description. I can obtain another 1J0 version so could remove a portion or maybe just cut it and see if it closes in. I am also going to buy some 1 mm galv sheet and a sort of flaring tool and try to make my own. They deffo won't be pretty but might just do the job.
The springs are VW - three green dots and allegedly 40 mm shorter then the standard spring. The dampers on ETKA should be either 191 511 115B or F by my reckoning. The number on the Meyle ones is different to your suggestion but that might be expected if matching a different VW number - they are 126 725 0055.
I would have bought the (more expensive) Boge ones but they only had/have one - but no guarantee that I would still not have the same problem,
Can't take any credit... quite a bit of info. out there if you check the free / on-line catalogues from most of the big name producers.
Some are better than others or easier to navigate, but they're all well worth a visit and book marking for future reference.
I've only access to 7Zap, but even so the OE part numbers it gives are generally accurate and can be used to cross reference / double check.
Autodoc and the likes use the same TecAlliance / TecDoc databases that the manufacturers maintain, though I'd still recommend going direct to the horses mouth, I've found occasionally things can get lost or confused in translation.
Here's Meyles to kick you off... Meyle On-Line Catalogue (https://www.meyle.com/en/service-centre/online-catalogue/)
Thanks for the link to the Meyle catalogue which indicates - 1.8 GTI PB, oil damper is replaced by 126 725 0055 so I am pretty confident I have the correct one. I have a copy of ETKA so whilst there are always a number of variations I think I have the correct ones - we will see when eventually I get round to fitting them!!!
I will post some pics of my fabricated underlays when I have the gear to make them.
So here is the first of my two underlays - see pic.
(https://i.ibb.co/D1LXr8X/Underlay-3.jpg)
A bit crude around the edges but the shape is good and it sits well - you can also see the hardwood timber former that I made. Just as I finished the second one the wooden former split - just held together long enough - phew!
For those who have refurbed their rear suspension before can I ask whether you found there was a significant difference in the height of the new 'lower bearing' and the old one - see second pic. I guess the old one is a bit squished after 30 years but I am a little concerned about having enough thread on the top of the damper to fully connect the top nuts.
(https://i.ibb.co/b1bdLfc/Bearing-ring-old-and-new.jpg)
Cheers
Just in case this is useful... I don't have a side by side comparison but I found this photo of my rebuilt rear struts for the 1.3
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50095305072_12cd0735a9_c.jpg
and the "lower bearing" looks very similar to your new one and the strut went back on without issue.
It was a while ago now but I don't remember there being any bearing plates when I first took it apart either, the shocks had the lower support for the spring built in.
Many thanks Caitlin - that helps. I have also heard from the supplier who confirms that they are deeper when new.
I can crack on and assemble them - when I get the time!!
All done and back on the car - yay!
Haynes and elsewhere says to torque the lower bolts when the car is back on its wheels. Not possible - the exhaust is in the way on one side and the fuel tank on the other. So I tightened as hard as I could with conventional spanners whilst on the floor and then lifted it and did the final torque setting - still tightened quite a bit.
Anybody else found this issue?
Excellent - look factory!
I'd imagine there's others out there would pay good money for a pair of those.
I was fortunate enough to have the car up in the air / nothing in the way, and one of the bolts striped it's thread on me way short of the correct torque.
Was suppossedly an new OE VW item too, have my doubts.
Got some matching spec. ones from Westfieldfastners (I think) and no issues.
Thanks for that. There was a lot of man-hours in those including the hardwood former and that has now broken. So won't be going into business making them anytime soon!
My bolts were from VW themselves and tightened OK. But you have to torque from the bolt head end which is not good practice as some of the torque gets lost in twisting the bolt. That could be why the thread stripped.