Hi everybody!
I’ve been lurking on the forum for a bit, and finally plucked up the courage to register and say hello!
Mine is probably a fairly typical story – my next-door neighbour had a MK2 GTi when I was kid, and I’ve loved them ever since, and so now in my mid-40s I was thinking I might finally be in a position to start looking for one.
…. Or so I thought!
I was really hoping to try for one of the very best examples, but since I last looked prices seem to have really moved up.
For example, this looks nice - 84K/1-owner - although the MOT history suggests it’s been off the road for some time and underbody corrosion has been a MOT advisory in the past, but I remember when £12k would have got you an absolute mint example.
https://www.eporsch.co.uk/listings/1991-j-reg-volkswagen-golf-1-8-gti-5dr/
I’ve also seen a couple up for the best part of £20k! So I guess my question is has everything really moved on with these cars price-wise, or are people just testing the water given what’s happening in some other parts of the classic car market?
Any thoughts much appreciated!
Paul
Hi and welcome, and if I were you I'd keep looking.
I would expect you should be able to pick up very clean solid example for around £10k, but I guess it depends on your budget and what you're looking for.
An 84 would be more than a later car as it's the launch year, so people pay a little extra for the first ones, there's one-up-manship for having the earliest known registered example.
Also worth noting in the first few years there were quite a few tweaks as VW refined the car, so there are some uncommon one-year-only features. Which, whilst this make it seem desirable it also make it harder to find parts. Ie. interiors, clocks, exhaust.
Similar is said for late registered run out models. They're often packed with extras as dealers wanted to make them more desirable to clear stock, so electric windows/mirrors etc are common on these.
If you have something particular in mind, then hold out for the right one and pay what you need to, but if you don't mind early/mid/late, small bumper or big bumper, 3dr or 5, and aren't fussed on colour then just keep looking.
Most will have had some level of repair/restoration by now so you need to be 100% sure the level of work is good. Personally I would try and find one in the most original un-restored condition and get the restoration done myself, overseeing the quality of work for anything I can't do myself.
If your budget is £10k I'd try and get one for £2-3k and have a decent amount to spend on it getting it perfect.
Many thanks for the quick reply and the welcome, and for the advice - I really appreciate it.
My preference would be a late, 5 door, 8v – and as you say ideally as original as possible.
I’m using some man-maths to justify it, as my daughter will be learning to drive reasonably soon so I’m thinking it’s also a great way to get her into a manual and hopefully ignite a passion for cars before everything goes electric, and that – combined with my hopelessness with the spanners – has been steering me away from any big projects, but you're definitely right that unrestored will be much better than badly restored!
I’ll take your advice and just keep looking – will post if and when I take the plunge.
I have just checked out your blog – awesome stuff, and I will definitely keep coming back to that as inspiration!
Thanks again,
Paul
If you find a GTI over your budget you could get a Driver and mod it.
As GTI prices rise I think lower models will also rise and I can see that for tastefully modified cars too. ie GTI running gear in a lesser model. Look at the prices for modified Escorts.
Just buy carefully and don't pay too much for one that has been bodged. Perhaps surf a few less mainstream websites which don't suffer auction/specialist hype? There will still be the odd bargain although you may need to travel.
The MOT history check is a useful resource before you commit to view.
Thanks – that all makes perfect sense. I hadn’t considered a tasteful upgrade of a Driver, but will definitely think about that as an alternative option to an original GTi.
I’ve got no history or emotional connection with Fords – which is just a well given where the prices have gone! – so it’s been interesting seeing how that market has developed purely as a spectator. As you say the Cosworth money has trickled all the way down now - even some of the much lesser models are probably getting to the point where they’re too valuable to drive regularly which is shame.
I’m in no particular rush, as still have a couple of years before my daughter will need the L-plates, so will take my time and look for the right car. That MOT history function is definitely really helpful - it can sometimes tell quite a story!
Thanks for replying - I think I’ve got a much better handle on the state of things already, and so I really appreciate it.
Paul
Hi and welcome glad to see you on board :)
Many thanks - really appreciate the welcome!
Paul
Hi Paul,
Bit like you, got urge to revisit my past life (ran a red Mk2 GTI in 88 and loved it) when I came across local car for sale, via old German car specialist. She had 83k on the clock and 2 prior owners, advertised as original pristine condition and an ‘investable’ proposition.
Up to this point I had been seeing similar spec cars for sale broadly in the £10 - £18k range, although clearly 3 doors carry a premium?
At the end of the day my heart ruled my head, given first impressions from classified photos and fond memories of my former VW Golf experience. I part exchanged a BMW M3 for it, realising an overall purchase price of £15,250. By way of valuation comparison, said dealer had a clean 154k Mk1 GTI for sale at £17,500 which I know they sold immediately after I bought mine.
Wife not overly impressed but she knows I have regularly moved on several ‘classic’ vehicles during our marriage at a modest mark up each time. At least she can drive this one, unlike my M3 SMG which scared her to death.
Like most things in the world, you need to firmly focus on your financial ‘capacity’ i.e. what you can comfortably risk to spend/invest and potentially lose in part at least if the car of your choice becomes a money drain for whatever reason. From everything I have read about these cars their residuals do seem to be holding up well in the current market which seems to be meeting the ‘Dads car’ trend much vaunted in the everyday classic car literature. Have only covered 1200 miles since January purchase (fitted s/s exhaust system and had to get starter motor replaced) so already testing my capacity. Great fun to drive and hardly an outing goes by without other road users, not all VW owners, flashing me in my moving museum.
Hope this helps in some way.
...when I came across local car for sale, via old German car specialist. She had 83k on the clock and 2 prior owners, advertised as original pristine condition and an ‘investable’ proposition.
Was that UKD Autos by any chance. They come to mind when you say local German specialist. (noted your location from your for sale post, I'm also a Thornbury resident), think I may have seen your black mk2 leaving Tesco the other day. I was in my Mk5 GTI so you wouldn't have given me a 2nd look I'm sure.
Hi Paul,
Bit like you, got urge to revisit my past life (ran a red Mk2 GTI in 88 and loved it) when I came across local car for sale, via old German car specialist. She had 83k on the clock and 2 prior owners, advertised as original pristine condition and an ‘investable’ proposition.
Up to this point I had been seeing similar spec cars for sale broadly in the £10 - £18k range, although clearly 3 doors carry a premium?
At the end of the day my heart ruled my head, given first impressions from classified photos and fond memories of my former VW Golf experience. I part exchanged a BMW M3 for it, realising an overall purchase price of £15,250. By way of valuation comparison, said dealer had a clean 154k Mk1 GTI for sale at £17,500 which I know they sold immediately after I bought mine.
Wife not overly impressed but she knows I have regularly moved on several ‘classic’ vehicles during our marriage at a modest mark up each time. At least she can drive this one, unlike my M3 SMG which scared her to death.
Like most things in the world, you need to firmly focus on your financial ‘capacity’ i.e. what you can comfortably risk to spend/invest and potentially lose in part at least if the car of your choice becomes a money drain for whatever reason. From everything I have read about these cars their residuals do seem to be holding up well in the current market which seems to be meeting the ‘Dads car’ trend much vaunted in the everyday classic car literature. Have only covered 1200 miles since January purchase (fitted s/s exhaust system and had to get starter motor replaced) so already testing my capacity. Great fun to drive and hardly an outing goes by without other road users, not all VW owners, flashing me in my moving museum.
Hope this helps in some way.
Many thanks, that really helps. I definitely needed some confidence that people who really know this car are ‘comfortable’ that current prices for really good examples are moving up into the £10-£20k range, and so if you’ve pulled the trigger on one at £15k that is really good to know. Thank you.
I’ve noticed the premium for 3 doors too, which is ok by me as I’m happy with 5 doors, but is there any reason for the difference other than preferences on styling?
Totally get your thinking on the financial capacity point – that’s another reason why I’m keen to find a good one, as I want to minimise the risk of it becoming a money drain which would put me firmly in the dog house at home!
Your car sounds fantastic – I’m glad you’re getting the chance to enjoy it, and soak up the appreciation out on the road. There’s definitely some cars you could buy which would guarantee you’ll never be let out at a junction again, so good to have my expectation confirmed that this is the opposite, and I guess I’ll just have to accept I’m firmly in the Dad’s car demographic!
Thanks again,
Paul
The whole 3dr / 5dr debate will run for ever.
Ultimately a 3dr appears to be more sporty, it's the concept of a 2dr / 2 seater sports car or coupe, it's the thought of bachelor-dom and not accepting the ties of family, kids in the back etc. It's a sign of independence and it being 'my' car, not practical transport. (Please excuse the Male Chauvinist opinion, I'm just expressing the marking traits of the 80s, it's not a personal statement of my values)
Where as the 5 dr is the compromise, yes I want a sporty hatch back, but it still needs to double as the family taxi.
Some people say the 5 dr is more ridged, and prefer them for track days etc. However surly the 5 dr is heavier?
But personally for me it's the design (I am a designer after all). If you look at the side profile the 3dr just looks right! it's the balance and proportion of metal vs glass, the structure of vertical and horizontal lines. You can imagine the sleek concept sketch on the designers drawing board, which at the point wouldn't have even had handles and mirrors etc, it would just be some slick swishes of pencil mark. The 'idea' of the car. Then the practical guys take the sketch and work out where the pillars need to be for integrity and strength, they need to consider how the windows go down into the door, with the door cut out for the rear wheel etc.
If you look at the 5 dr side profile compared with a 3 dr the C pillar is MUCH MUCH thicker to bring the door forward to clear the rear wheel. This is more obvious if you're tried to buy a headlining or interior trims and found you've bought for the wring number of doors - I haven't but I know of many that have and hadn't thought they were that different.
The proportions of the 5 door are visually back heavy, the shorter front door and crammed in rear door and the repositioned B pillar all shift the visual layout. The quarter-light window on the rear door introduces an extra vertical line, it's the horizontal lines that give the impression of speed, even when standing still. Take into account an early (pre 87) car with the front quart-lights too and this in 5 dr just has too many verticals.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a total 3 dr snob, it you look at Golf from the Mk4 on the rear lines of the rear doors mimic the shape of the back of the car, VW really thought about how the doors should fit with the visual stance of the car, with the Mk4 especially I think the 5 dr looks so much better than the 3 dr.
Hope that helps, and hope you look at the car in a different light.
Oh almost forgot to say in my long winded ramble, it's also the marketing. The sale brochures always depicted the 3 dr on the front cover:
https://issuu.com/home/published/1990eurogti16v
The TV ads use the 3 dr:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntE4i8pZswA
VW show you the 3 dr and sell you the image, the sub conciseness builds so you belive that the 3 dr is the 'official' and in some way approved GTI and the 5 dr just dosen't cut it. In the same way the paint colours used in the TV adverts for any car tend to be the best sellers, you just buy into the visual and accept that's just how it should be.
I just pulled up a picture of a 3dr and a 5dr and everything you say is right there – it’s really weird how I’d subconsciously noticed the overall effect, without specifically noticing what was causing it. The only thing I had specifically noticed before was the vertical line on the back door for the opening windows, and maybe the front seat backs sitting behind the b-pillar, so it’s really interesting to see it all again through the eyes of a designer.
I’m sure you’re right about manufacturers trying to anchor people to the 3dr, but I guess I’m coming from the opposite direction as that’s where my personal history kicks in - my neighbour’s was a 5dr (sporty hatchback and taxi as you say), and so I've always had the 5dr firmly etched into my mind as what a MK2 GTI looks like. For me when I look at the 3dr I’m subconsciously thinking there’s something missing from the back window!
So personally I quite like the sporty hatchback and family taxi aesthetic, as I think doing both of those well is one of the key things that makes the car so special, but I can now definitely appreciate that from a designer’s perspective the 3dr is a much purer realisation of the original vision.
Thanks!
Paul
You'll probably see this link elsewhere, but if not might add to your research -
https://www.hagerty.co.uk/valuation/tool/results/?y=1991&mk=Volkswagen&md=Golf&sm=GTI+Mk+II&b=Hatchback (https://www.hagerty.co.uk/valuation/tool/results/?y=1991&mk=Volkswagen&md=Golf&sm=GTI+Mk+II&b=Hatchback)
Any good... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304047305034?hash=item46caa1b14a:g:948AAOSwS6Rg2HnL
Well under budget but gives you plenty of money in the pot to oversee your own restoration of anything that needs doing.
You'll probably see this link elsewhere, but if not might add to your research -
https://www.hagerty.co.uk/valuation/tool/results/?y=1991&mk=Volkswagen&md=Golf&sm=GTI+Mk+II&b=Hatchback (https://www.hagerty.co.uk/valuation/tool/results/?y=1991&mk=Volkswagen&md=Golf&sm=GTI+Mk+II&b=Hatchback)
That’s great - thanks, I’d not seen that before. I now understand what it meant when I’ve seen condition 2 etc. on sales and auction wording, and great to have the values for this specific car. Looks like it supports the prices being asked for good examples.
I like the imagery of “driving onto the lawn at the finest concours” – but unfortunately not the associated price tag!
Paul
Any good... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304047305034?hash=item46caa1b14a:g:948AAOSwS6Rg2HnL
Well under budget but gives you plenty of money in the pot to oversee your own restoration of anything that needs doing.
Hi, many thanks - this definitely looks to be a good basis for a restoration and appears to have great potential. It’s too much for me to take on though, as I’ve promised at home that I won’t be stepping into a big project. The steering rack’s just gone on our daily too, which is going to set me back funds-wise for a while unfortunately – if only everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen!
It’s also a 5dr, and after studying the photos alongside your comments again I think you might actually have convinced me that I want a 3dr…!
Paul
…,I think you might actually have convinced me that I want a 3dr…!
That’s so funny… I’m sorry I changed your perception but glad you came round lol
Having watched and seen the comments a lot depends on your own personal wishes, does it need to be oem? Bigger output engines are being fitted all the time and I guess it’s because they are no longer original the prices seem to be lower…. I don’t think you can be to picky in your wishes unless you get very lucky or have loads of time …I am not a fan of white cars but have had mine for 13 years , you will get an idea of value and there will be a car out there for your you at a price you are happy with …Rust is the thing to look out for , most oily bit problems are sortable ..
Having watched and seen the comments a lot depends on your own personal wishes, does it need to be oem? Bigger output engines are being fitted all the time and I guess it’s because they are no longer original the prices seem to be lower…. I don’t think you can be to picky in your wishes unless you get very lucky or have loads of time …I am not a fan of white cars but have had mine for 13 years , you will get an idea of value and there will be a car out there for your you at a price you are happy with …Rust is the thing to look out for , most oily bit problems are sortable ..
Mk2's seem to have turned a corner. A few years ago, you bolted another engine into it and it bumped the value by at least 1k.
I've done a fair few in my day, not to make money, just to make the car go faster, at the time I couldn't give the original engines away. But also, back then you could pick up a tidy mk2 for £500, that is very much not the case nowadays!
Having watched and seen the comments a lot depends on your own personal wishes, does it need to be oem? Bigger output engines are being fitted all the time and I guess it’s because they are no longer original the prices seem to be lower…. I don’t think you can be to picky in your wishes unless you get very lucky or have loads of time …I am not a fan of white cars but have had mine for 13 years , you will get an idea of value and there will be a car out there for your you at a price you are happy with …Rust is the thing to look out for , most oily bit problems are sortable ..
Mk2's seem to have turned a corner. A few years ago, you bolted another engine into it and it bumped the value by at least 1k.
I've done a fair few in my day, not to make money, just to make the car go faster, at the time I couldn't give the original engines away. But also, back then you could pick up a tidy mk2 for £500, that is very much not the case nowadays!
Back in 2008 people would have gone nuts if they knew I paid £3k for mine , remember people saying no Mk2 is worth more than a grand
Good investment, that!