Brakes (front)
I'll try and keep this thread to just the info about front brakes, standard and upgrade options. If something is wrong, please post up and I'll edit it.
[size=150]Standard Items[/size]
Engine size - Disc - Size
1.3 - Solid - 239 x 10mm
1.6 / 1.8 - Solid - 239 x 12mm
1.8 GTI 8v (and pre '88 16v) - Vented - 239 x 20mm
1.8 GTI 16v (post '88) - Vented - 256 x 20mm
1.8 G60 - Vented - 280 x 22mm
Servos for the non GTIs are 7" with the GTIs being 9".
Master cylinders are 20.64mm for most with the bigger brakes requiring 22.2mm cylinders.
The 8v GTI and below use caliper carriers which are integrated into the bearing carrier (often called the wheel hub) whereas the 256mm and 280mm use bolt on carriers. The 256mm carrier is smaller than the 280mm one as it doesn't need to push the caliper out from the hub as much.
Both the 256mm and 280mm calipers are Girling 54 units although the 280mm has a larger reach. The measurement is between the piston fully home and the outer edge the pad rests against, 256mm are 53mm and the 280mm are 61mm.
[size=150]Upgrades[/size]
Any of the cars can be upgrade fairly easily within the range available in the standard items list with the usual route being people changing up from 239mm (sold/vented) up to 256mm or 280mm in the 4x100 wheel bolt pattern. There is also the option to change to 288mm brakes with the use of 5x100 bolt pattern.
There are also possible other larger options but they won't fit under 15" wheels (not easily anyway) and require a bit more work to get them to fit.
Aside from the options available on similar platform Golfs (mk2 up to 280mm and mk3 on 288mm) you can get:
Porsche rear 4 piston Brembos to fit with a custom carrier
Wilwood full 280mm 4 piston kit
Mk5/6 312mm single piston calipers with a custom carrier
Other options are there too if you're able to make custom carriers / get some made
Parts
To do the mk2 Golf options, or any brake upgrade, you will need to check just what you have fitted when it comes to the following:
- Disc size (including thickness)
- Caliper type
- Bearing carrier type
- Master cylinder size
- Servo size
With regards to the servo and m/c, you need to make sure you have the larger ones as the amount of fluid required to move the larger pistons increases so in turn these need upgrading. If you have a GTI you'll have a 9" servo so that's not an issue, but you'll likely have the smaller m/c so will need to get a replacement.
At time of writing a 22.2mm m/c can be bought for sub £30 so there is no reason to get a second hand one. This will do you well for brakes up to (and including) 288mm but if you want to go bigger then a 23mm-25mm m/c is going to be needed, these can be found on plenty of other vehicles with the 25mm being found on non-abs T4s.
If you have the integrated caliper carriers as found on all 239mm cars then you'll need to get new bearing carriers (sensibly, change the bearings when you get them). If you want to keep it 4 stud then you can get them from any 4x100 Seat or VW with at least 256mm brakes, the vehicles you can get them from include:
- polo classic (estate/saloon)
- caddy van
- corrado
- passat
- higher spec non-gti mk3/cab/vento
- ibiza
- cordoba
- toledo
- g60
- 16v
With this you'll also need to get different lower ball joints as the smaller brakes / earlier cars have smaller ball joints than used on the 256mm+ cars. Again, cheap and easy enough to get so not a real worry.
If you get your bearing carrier, caliper carrier and caliper separate from each other then unless you're 100% sure what size the carriers and calipers they are, you'll need to check. The carrier needs to have enough space in the middle to clear the 20/22mm wide brakes (so 22/24mm or so space) and obviously needs to bring the caliper mounting holes to around 128/140mm from centre of the drive shaft.
Calipers
The caliper itself is easy to check if it's actually a 256mm or 280mm one (people often sell 256mm as 280mm so be careful). Ensure that the piston is fully pushed back into the caliper and measure from the piston out to the outer lugs that the pads rest against, measurements should be:
256mm - 53mm gap
280mm - 61mm gap
Example:
If you are aiming for 280mm and end up with 256mm calipers and 280mm carriers you can run them so it's not the end of the world. You'll need to run 16v pads though and it's highly likely you'll need to shave some of the pad surface off to get them to fit over the wider discs.
Fitting - Parts
When it comes to fitting, with a 4 port m/c you'll either need to blank off one side to give you 2 ports or run one port to each corner. If you opt for the latter, make sure to have them diagonally with one front and one rear on each chamber. The pair of ports (front/rear) count for a chamber so as an example you'd run it something like this assuming port numbers being counted from left to right when looking at it bolted to the servo:
Port - Wheel
1 - OSR
2 - NSF
3 - NSR
4 - OSF
You'll also need to change the flexi lines, 8v ones work you just have to remove the hard line from the caliper, or buy 88-on 16v flexis if you want to keep the hard line. Again, it's best to get new at this point as it'll save hassle later down the line.
Parts - Discs & Pads
With regards to discs, be sure you don't get suckered in to buying overpriced ones. For example, the 280mm discs are used on the Golf G60 and so carry a premium, however the exact same part number is used on the Seat Ibiza and some other Seats and are cheaper when asking for them as opposed to "G60 Golf" brakes.
256mm disc P/N: 321615301D / 6N0615301D
280mm disc P/N: 535615301
Pads are obviously similar in the respect of shared parts between Seat and VW, the 256mm pads are 16.25mm thick and the 280mm pads are 19.5mm.
256mm pad P/N: 1HM698151A / 357698151A / 357698151E
280mm pad P/N: 357698151B
If looking for either discs or pads, make sure to have a good look under the above part numbers as you will likely find the Golf items costing more than the Seat ones despite obviously being the same. This also leads into what type of of discs or pads to use as you can get the various standard parts from the likes of Euro Car Parts for sensible money but you can also pick up upgrade items for similar costs / not a lot more.
Drilled and grooved 280mm discs for example can be bought for the same / less than the cost of plain ones if you hunt about, they potentially wear the pads a bit more but generally they are a good idea for improved heat dispersion.
Standard pads are quite cheap (sub £20 via VW Heritage for example) but the upgrade ones can range quite a lot in cost and obviously this also means they vary in quality / stopping power. I've made a list of pads I know about below but I've had no experience of them so can't properly advise which are best in what application, you'll have to look into them properly yourself.
Pad options roughly in cost / quality order:
- Standard / Generic
- Mintex M1144
- EBC Greenstuff
- Black Diamond
- EBC Yellowstuff
- EBC Bluestuff - track pad
- Ferodo DS2500 - track/race pad
Parts - Sourcing
For parts, eBay is often very good provided you know what you're after and choose to deal with decent sellers, below I've made a list of parts suppliers you may want to use for your own parts buying / research.
280mm caliper and carrier images
[size=85]*Large amounts of info above are via rubjonny in this thread*[/size]
Topic: Brakes (front) (Read 2722 times)
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