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Topic: New owner worried about E10 (Read 1268 times) previous topic - next topic

New owner worried about E10

Hi everyone,Just bought an '86 8-valve,but staight away have got a query.
With the introduction of E10 petrol,will it interfere with the car's workings,and,other than using Super-Unleaded,what can be done in order to minimize/eradicate problems?
Cheers!

Re: New owner worried about E10

Reply #1 –
8v gti's are supposed to run super unleaded. My understanding is e10 has a detrimental effect on some type fuel lines. I think it causes  rubber of certain types to fail.
scs

Re: New owner worried about E10

Reply #2 –
Yes a GTI should be run on 98 RON minimum, which is shown on the inside of the filler flap. So you should be running Super Unleaded all the time as a matter of course.



Things to note, personally when I have had to use standard unleaded in the past (the garage near my work has not super and due to bad planning have had to use it) found I get less MPG from standard unleaded. So although you pay more per litre for super the return is better therefore reducing the overall cost difference slightly.

I also run super in my motorbike, I'll get to that.

Now, I've seen a lot about this topic on social media and forums and I'm not expert but what I've noticed mostly is people are asking the wrong questions. They ask:

Will my Bike/Car run on E10.

The answer is yes! I mean, you can get a petrol engine to run on paraffin!

The question should be:

Am I likely to see long term negative effects running my bike/car on E10 fuel.

The answer to this is YES!

The ethanol is harmful, and I think we're yet to see quite how bad. But the government doesn't care. They've proved that with the scrappage scheme previously.

Even though producing a car, servicing and maintaining it and running it over 9 years is less harmful to the environment overall than the person that buys a new car every 3 years. With sourcing materials, manufacturing, and usually shipping it half way round the world. The benefit of a 'new' eco friendly engine is minimal by comparison, but people buy into the idea of replacing their vehicles with the newest and best, because it's environmentally better. Don't get me started on EVs.

Anyway, the point. If we start to see an increase in reliability of older cards, this brings more of them off the road and the purchase of new cars brings more revenue to the government. The scrappage scheme was about the economy, not the environment.


Ethanol will break down rubber parts, seals, hoses, o-ring, grommets, diaphragms, and whatever. It's likely to also effect some plastics although that breakdown may be slower and not felt for years. But think about the swirl pot for the under car fuel pump housing. I've seen an increase in these failing in recent years, is it just because they're 30 years old now or has that been accelerated by just the 5% in E5 fuel? If not the plastic if you look at the construction it's a plastic shell somehow glued together, they split at the seams, not through flexing, the seams just give out. What's eating the glue!!!!

I belive aluminium and light metals will also be eroded quicker, carbs bodies, float chambers and brass jets and internals.

Most motorbike take fuel by gravity, the tank sits on top, there's a tap, often a vacuum valve, and the carbs sit underneath. So when any of the rubber or plastic parts fail, one of two things happens, and I'm reading about this so frequently now, the carbs will overflow and dump up to 20 litres (average size of a large bike tank) of fuel on your garage floor, or and this seems to be the one most frequently happening, the float will fail so as the carbs fill it will pour the fuel into the engine and you'll end up with the content of your fuel tank in your oil sump. Given the amount of oil in a bike engine isn't that much there's not a lot of capacity for up to 20 litres of fuel.

This is happening already with E5 so will only get worse.

Like classic car owners many motorbikes don't get used daily so the fuel will sit in the system doing its damage. Over time the Ethanol and petrol may even separate and with the result being a chemical reaction and a fuel system full of jelly.

Some places are offering E10 rebuild kits, hardened and compatible replacement parts for to rebuild your fuel system, so if it's carb internals or whatever solutions may be available. If they're E10 proof, or just slow down the process of erosion is yet to be seen.

Super Unleaded is set to stay at no more than 5% ethanol for now, I think some brands may even offer ethanol free super. I have a Mk2 and Mk5 GTIs which both require super as factory spec so I'll be sticking with that and I use Super in my bike, which doesn't require it, but I do anyway for all the reasons mentioned above. Rebuilding a bank of 4 motorbike carbs is a pain in the ass and I don't want to have to do it.

Re: New owner worried about E10

Reply #3 –
My daily is a diesel (sorry!) and the daughter's in a Citigo so petrol for it is bought on price, not RON.

Until I got the 205 back on the road I'd never given Super Unleaded much thought, not having a reason to use it.

A while back, as a half hearted experiment I filled the Peugeot with what I thought was Super Unleaded at a local outlet here in Northern Ireland.

Turns out it was just standard 95 RON, but branded by them with some fancy name so as to charge extra for their own blend of 'premium' additives... likely a crock and even it did work didn't mean it upped the RON. Lesson learned, take the time to read the pump blurb properly, I don't think that tactic's unique to them.

Anyhow, it prompted me to check where I could get the strong stuff over here and from what I can see that would be a big fat no-where (unless you know differently, in which case I'm keen to know).

When I was doing up the 205 one of the many things needed was replacement flexible fuel lines - Coincidentally at the same time someone else on the main 205 Forum had bought an off the shelf set from a reputable specialist / site sponsor.

Long story short, they'd perished within a year on this other person and the issue was traced back to a batch of counterfeit 'Gates' stuff that'd gotten into their supply chain and was flooding the market at the time.

The upshot was an article on how to tell genuine from fake using differences in the type face etc. of the screen printed info. on the pipe itself... desperate that you need to go to those lengths to ensure safety critical parts are up to spec. because of unscrupulous people trying to scam others.

It's a while now since I looked into it but do remember that (genuine) 'Gates Barricade' is the go to choice as it's intended for E10, worth researching a bit more if you're in the market for new lines.



    

Re: New owner worried about E10

Reply #5 –
Rather expensive, but good that the option at least exists.

Alternative liquid fuels could well be the salvation of the internal combustion engine. Electric's here to stay but I'm not convinced it's going to obliterate all other power sources in they way some would have you believe.

Mentioned elsewhere Porsche have already developed a petrol derivative for it's high performance engines that if calculated from creation to combustion is less impactful than the equivalent electricity needed.

If there's a will (and a profit to be made) there's usually a way... be interesting to see what other solutions are developed.

 

Re: New owner worried about E10

Reply #6 –
Yes expensive, but I'm sure it's not aimed at your average Mk2 Golf owner, more likely the kind of people that are Jag E-Type owners. It would actually be a good 'storage' fuel. If. fuel tank (metal) is left full, then there's no air to form rust, but I suppose it's more common to store classics dry.